September 11th tribute video (download inside)

lethelgirth87 · Post by **lethelgirth87** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:54 pm

I had some extra time, so I made a september 11th tribute video titled "A Cruel Place". It's about 3 and a half minutes long.

Low Quality WMV - http://brokenstickproductions.com/patri ... lplace.wmv

High Quality WMV - http://brokenstickproductions.com/patri ... lacehi.wmv

Sorry I couldn't get a MOV out, maybe sometime later in the week I'll render an MOV file.

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:54 am

Well its difficult to give crit on created material depicting that very emotive topic to many americans on 9/11. So the crit i give now is based entirely on this particualar film only ok

I think its well edited, i think the choices of poems are effective, the pace is good the background music is mostly appropriate. This is very typical of the styple of editing and visual depictions probably that will be shown in many USA news media outlets also.

That points me partly to my concerns for it, as this video is very much a reflection of common editorial videos in the US news media, (editorial btw is not i.e. news -fact programmes) that it could be suggested by some to be unoriginal in its depiction in memorium.

As a tribute video to Sept 11th, why begin with an American flag? Bear in mind a fluttering piece of nationalist cloth does not immediately say 'the civilian victims of an atrocity' for a flag can also say 'vietnam war, iraqi war or anything whatsoever'

Having patriotic style, jingolisic beginnings detracts from the individualism of the tragedy, which means, when the video does very effectively show photographs of survivors and rescuers, it seems more to be adding to this jingolistic start than giving them their own piece of time (which given its a tribute to 9/11 is ironic.)

The quote from Bush, with his approval ratings below 40% currently, and with vast amounts of europeans and others who despise the man lol, he is a very divisive figure to use for his quotes and imagery. For a tribute, you will have audience members shaking their fists, and combined with your us flag at the start, think this is a soft group ad for Bush Cheney 2004 hehe.

Which is a damn shame cos so much of it is need, (the statue of liberty montage image with the plane was a bit tasteless also.)

Remember the 9/11 attack was against civilians in office blocks, if it is a tribute to them, it should be a tribute to people like secretaries, cleaners and and canteen workers. (while bush mentions something like that) your own film does not!

So its a point to consider

lethelgirth87 · Post by **lethelgirth87** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:11 pm

Wow, I didn't think of all of that...I was just trying to tell a story.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:32 pm

Do realize, you do not need to tell the story. EVERYBODY knows the story. It's a tribute! Looks good so far.

I can't say much anything else until I get home and watch it with audio.

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:34 pm

*shrugs* lol trust me never say 'you were just trying to tell a story' hehe

And sure you should always think of the intricate elements when editing something to be shown in public

Especially a 'tribute' that is of a highly emotive topic. That post took me 10 minutes to type? Surely you thought more about what your tribute would be than the time it took me to type that reply

So you see, there's no wow about it

Incidentally when i studied TV & Productions, even for a 15 second teaser ad i'd have to write a treatment, synopsis blah blah so its allllways worth thinking how it will be percieved

Gyro · Post by **Gyro** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:34 pm

Don't try and opinionate him Lawriefjaffa, I think that the Bush quote worked very well. Because in September of 2001 more than 75% of the country backed George W. Bush as the president and the U.N. voted almost 100% to invade Afganistan.

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:56 pm

Gyro a little hot off the trigger there bunny, anyway you should know better, stating % of who backed Bush and why Bush is okay BS, would have a million who disagree with ya flaming the thread back. My reply isnt an attack on the politics of the film, its just an obvious statement that the memorial had obvious political overtones, that it seems lethelgirl didn't realise, hence in fact the comment was useful (in that at least lethel could think it over, and certainly not for you to judge Gyro!?)
What we don't need is you running the flag for glory gyro hehe (your m16 is in the post gi joe)

Again cos of ur daft post gyro, i have to say explicity, that my crit (to you lethelgirl) was not based on an agitated liberal or left wing background, simply wanting to trounce on ur film for having a us flag and a bush quote, it was cos these things i thought were 'flags' worth mentioning cos of the way that some divisive people and symbols can affect the audience. (the SOLE reason for mentioning the stat i did.....)

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:23 am

Lawriejaffa, you aren't helping anything by making a poor filmmaker whom is actually trying to be NATIONALISTIC feel put down. Your last post makes me feel a little insulted, myself. I understand you hate Bush very much, as you are very biased against him. But if EVERYBODY hates him so much, then why is he still president? And I do love seeing the good ol stars and stripes flown in glory of my beloved country.

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:52 am

Well im not biased against Bush Epsilon, I ain't claiming every hates him, what im claiming is that for ANY memorial it is provocative to have a divisie political leader feature. I also wasnt saying therefore lethel shouldnt have it, im just pointing out that it can offend some, (im not an american however!) But many Americans hate bush and many love him' but pointing out his current low ratings is to serve only the point that presently his featuring in the video is much less likely to develop a positive response currently.

Its like the funeral for Robin Cook we had, our foreign Minister, he died, and Tonly Blair wasnt there to speak at it, cos the two politicians had such a turbulent relationship (over iraq war incidentally) so much so that his 'presence' would have compromised the memorial. When you use Nationalism you are serving to a right wing interest at the risk of alienating others, if lethel had'nt considered it, then its worth mentioning!!! Just so he can do so intentionally or ammend.

So that is the sole point, and Epsilon and i do say at the end of my post before, that my intention is not to attack the film for having us flags or bush quotes or cos i have some liberal agenda etc.) So my post is to clarify my own crit does not stem from my own personal feelings regarding Bush, but to highlight the feeling much of his audience may hold.

A film maker does try to be 'nationalistic' but for many its place in a memorial serves only to politicise events, be it to the pro or anti war lobby that uses political symbolism in film to manipulate.

I think though, we can see this thread devolving into an emotive 'don't hit my country' topic.

'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel'
- Samuel Johnson -

SgtPadrino · Post by **SgtPadrino** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:28 am

I agree that using Bush quotes isn't the best, since "various national disasters" have showed his true colors (for some reason you don't hear much about the fact his initial pledge to the tsunami was about 15 million bucks) but that stuff is for another thread.

Showing the American flag is alright, because believe it or not, patriotism swept across the country at the time so in context it's very appropriate.

Gyro · Post by **Gyro** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:07 am

Epsilon wrote:Lawriejaffa, you aren't helping anything by making a poor filmmaker whom is actually trying to be NATIONALISTIC feel put down. Your last post makes me feel a little insulted, myself. I understand you hate Bush very much, as you are very biased against him. But if EVERYBODY hates him so much, then why is he still president? And I do love seeing the good ol stars and stripes flown in glory of my beloved country.

A-Freakin'-men!

ChemicalShaman · Post by **ChemicalShaman** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:51 am

Lawriejaffa don't bother arguiing with these morons, seriously. It's a waste of time. That quote "But if EVERYBODY hates him so much, then why is he still president?" is possibly the most idiotic thing i've read all month.

Seriously, this is the mentality you are dealing with. You're wasting your time.

CS

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:56 am

ChemicalShaman wrote:That quote "But if EVERYBODY hates him so much, then why is he still president?" is possibly the most idiotic thing i've read all month.

Have you ever read the US constitution, by chance?

ChemicalShaman · Post by **ChemicalShaman** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:17 am

What's that? Some sort of stick-mag?

Just thought i'd point out to you in case you didn't know, that thing that you're holding in your avatar is a gun. This is used to kill people, people with families and children. Yes that's right, it used for the purpose of making things dead.

Pretty cool huh, yep guns and war sure are cool! The killing of thousands of innocent people, yep that sure is cool.

You know that's what happens in war right? Thousands upon thousands of people are killed.

Anyway, this is hardly the thread to be having this conversation.

CS

film fanatic · Post by **film fanatic** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:01 am

On the contrary, most people would say it's exactly the thread to moan in because every time somebody hits a touchy subject, arguments ensue. (Sarcasm.)

Personally, I really liked that video. It's unbiased. And I agree, argumentative people on this forum should please shut up for once.

ChemicalShaman · Post by **ChemicalShaman** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:07 am

Oh yeah probably should have mentioned

The film was really well made, well narrated, well put together and certainly stirred an emotional response.

For what it is this film is excellent, subject aside, as a film maker your certainly have a gift.

well done.

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:19 am

Well im gonna make a point that (i hope doesn't sound too pretentious) but is relative to my original argument about the use of politics in emotive subjects.

THE IRONY ELEMENT.

The video is a memorial about people who lost lives? for example, mothers, sisters, brothers, fathers, sons and daughters etc.

Some naive elements may think that there would be no political argument on this thread HAD I not originally pointed out the POTENTIAL for political argument arising from the nationalistic symbols in the film, but with any audience for such films, it is in fact, inevitable. Remember also, there is no film that is unbiased, especially with political imagery represented with national tragedy be it left or right film fanatic, this film included.

But it has, and i think lethel this should serve to show you just how powerful political symbolism is. For you now have men to the right wing, Gyro and Epsilon for example (bear with me guys) arguing with guys more to the left or center like Chemical Shaman.

My own political views are irrelevant BUT by pointing out non nationalist view, notice now the political flame that has emerged.

This forum IS NOT UNIQUE in that an argument would arise, ANYONE watching this film, or those with nationalistic symbolism combined with emotive topics, will create ARGUMENT and DEBATE in its wake.

Hence my point, does anyone want a memorial video to cause that? When it is supposed to be a TRIBUTE.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For an experiment, I as a UK person, will attempt sometime today to make a Sept 11 tribute video (based on image and video grabs on the net) in a brief exercise, to portray a non political partisan version.

as an experiment.

- PS
Chemical Shaman, while Epsilon likes to dress as a soldier - Gyro likes to go commando instead!

- PPS Epsilon I will be neeting your help soon on finding a good colour to change some swedish jackets im getting into german, will mail u some pics when they arrive if thats ok?

lethelgirth87 · Post by **lethelgirth87** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:34 pm

Thanks for all the comments guys!

Just to answer some questions, I actually put the american flag in there because it happened to America, and George Bush is in there because he was the president at the time, so I thought it was necessary. Anyway, thanks guys!

Truggy · Post by **Truggy** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:19 pm

Ok, you know i hate george bush with a passion ok...ChemicalShaman has a point, arguing on this forum turns into locked threads and people getting banned. So lets cut it out, and just observe the movie.

Second : Anyone who says this sucked, in any way shape or form, should be slapped. over and over. This was a very good tribute. Good job.

-Truggy

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:58 am

Oh god truggy enuf already!!! lol