Use of incidental copyrighted articles?

BrownCowStudios · Post by **BrownCowStudios** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:05 am

There seem to be a lot of legal questions lately...

Anyway, my question refers to showing indentifyable signs in a film. There's a location I want to use in my next film called "Bob's Bar." Now, as generic as it may sound, I don't want to be concerned that if I show this sign, that I can get into any legal trouble later on down the road.

So, is it legal, in the US, to have identifyable signs shown in a film without consent from the owner of the location?

And yes, the film will most likely be sold/distributed, so don't say "Well it should be alright if you don't plan on selling it," because we do.

Erm... yeah...

Themovieman44 · Post by **Themovieman44** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:55 am

Yeah Paul, the film will have to have permission. I know I am making it with you but I know my legal stuff lol. We do have to have permission to show anything that stands for a business, a storefront, a sign, or even a franchise. So yes, Saturday we need to go have the release signed.

BrownCowStudios · Post by **BrownCowStudios** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:57 am

f***. Should have just asked you in the first place.

You Brits make a note of this. You lucky bastards with your "Hey, look, I can film an identifyable sign/person without a release!"

Sorry.

tallman_house_pictures · Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:58 am

Yeah, according to copyright laws (in the u.s) you just can't have noticible beer brands (labat, budwiser....)

BrownCowStudios · Post by **BrownCowStudios** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:59 am

Not what I was talking about, but sure...

tallman_house_pictures · Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:02 am

Yeah, I just saw that you were filming at a bar... (you know...bar, beer....beer, bar)

Themovieman44 · Post by **Themovieman44** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:03 am

Lol yes Paul, I have those legal books and all that. Remember I work at a library for christ sake!!

U.S.Amateurfilmaker · Post by **U.S.Amateurfilmaker** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:24 am

You can get your a** sued off for anything in the US. You Europeans are lucky as hell!

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:06 am

You don't have to ask permission at all... it's just that they can come back and sue your a** off! Make sure to get written consent!

You can use beer labels, in fact they might like you promoting their item! Unless you plan to do something negative with it, I don't see a problem with it. That is why Hollywood tends to create their own labels!

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:27 pm

Epsilon wrote:You don't have to ask permission at all... it's just that they can come back and sue your a** off! Make sure to get written consent!

You can use beer labels, in fact they might like you promoting their item! Unless you plan to do something negative with it, I don't see a problem with it. That is why Hollywood tends to create their own labels!

Actually you may be able to get away with it, you can have no identifiable trademarks, as far as the sign, if it is not trademarked, and the building itself is nothing more than background, i.e. not invloved at all in the story line, then you may not have an issue. Better to get the release however. Another example is if you are shooting a scene say driving down the road and drive past the Golden Arches of Mickey Dee's, that would be allowed, if you go throught he drive thru in your film... need a release. Also as somemone said, if they are in the scene and represented in a negative light, then there could be an issue. For example, even if the bar isn't involved in the scene whatsoever, but your film portrays a drug deal going bad and 17 people getting gunned down witht he bar in the background, that coud be interpretted as a negative light, showing the neighborhood is violent and drug ridden.
Here are some guidelines for when you need model/property rel;eases from the Alamy Stock Photo site
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photography-rel-guide.asp
Now also consider, depending on what your intended use is, you may need a release even if LEGALLY you don't. For example submission to a festival. The festival organizers may require a release for that property in the background, even if by practical standards it wouldn't be required. The best rule of thumb, if you have to ask "Do I need a relase?" then you should probably get the release. Some of these gray areas can be incredibly confusing so you are better to err on the side of safety.

Ornsack · Post by **Ornsack** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:01 pm

You don't need permission unless you focus on one brand more than another... Say if the main character said "Hmm, I really really fancy a Budwieser" and then you see him drink it with the label facing the camera, and then he goes "Mmmm that Bud was lovely", that could get you sued

If you have brands displayed in the background then you'll have no problems unless you show your production on commercial US tv

lethelgirth87 · Post by **lethelgirth87** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:10 pm

I advertised hardcorely for Budwieser in my film Preeminent Chaos, because #1 my dad works their, and #2 I really don't care about legal stuff, because as far as I am concerned, I am helping them ADVERTISE! So really, I don't see a problem with it at all, in fact, the guy at the bar would prolly be more than happy that you have his sign in your film. So I wouldn't worry about it....

2nd_Recon · Post by **2nd_Recon** » Thu May 13, 2004 3:05 pm

Now, as another twist on this question, What if the building is empty and the owner is leasing? I know I'll need a release form if I want to go inside, but I was wondering if the sign is still up, should I talk to the guy that used to own the store? (What happened was, the guy got shut down, but never bothered to take the sign down.)

lukeprausnitz · Post by **lukeprausnitz** » Thu May 13, 2004 5:15 pm

i suggest ypu make sure you get permission. in america, people sue for the stupidest things (eg i got lung cancer from smoking. i know, ill sue the cigarete company!)

windog · Post by **windog** » Mon May 09, 2005 9:05 am

People are greedy in todays world. That is why everyone sues.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:07 am

You're about a year late.

windog · Post by **windog** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:25 pm

EPSILION, You have answered everyone of my posts. I may as well chat privatly to you!

No, really you are giving me some good pointers.