Suspension on a wire ...for amatures

Truggy · Post by **Truggy** » Mon May 03, 2004 2:07 pm

Ok, with limited ( i mean limited cash)...What is the safest/most cost effective way to do this. For our next film yes recon is doing everything, but i brought up an idea for a wire scene. How would we go about doing this. We have lots of tree's at our disposal as well. Thanx

-Truggy

ChibiVader · Post by **ChibiVader** » Mon May 03, 2004 2:51 pm

The system we're using for The Matrix: Regrets cost a total of around $70.

We got some really heavy chain with a weight rating of 2000 lbs, a pullet rated at 1700, and a piece to connect them with similar strength. The chain gets tossed over a tree, support beam, or whatever you've got overhead that's going to be able to support the weight of 3 people (1 on the wire, at least 2 pulling).

For the wire, we are using the thinnest braided steel cable we could find with a weight rating of over 1200 lbs. We created a loop on the end using wire clamps. That is then put over the pulley and attached to a regular climbing harness with a climbing caribeener (sp?).

It's pretty easy to move in, but hard to hide. We can do it easily because we're all wearing trench coats.

Also, remember to get some work gloves or attach something else to the steel cable so you'll be able to grip it. Other wise it will cut into your hands when you try to grip it hard enough to pull someone up with.

Unfortunately for our film, the owners of the location we wanted to film still haven't given us permission to do the wirework. Otherwise I'd send you some pictures. There are a few pictures on the website in the Behind the Scenes section but they don't really show to much.

Hope that helps.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:36 am

In other words... make a human piÃƒÂ±ata!

slimdog55 · Post by **slimdog55** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:21 am

For my next movie (filming in a few weeks, maybe more) someone sitting in a chair get shot with a shotgun from about 5 feet away. I was thinking of tieing the steel wire around the person and just pulling. Any advice on how to attatch it to the person? Any steel wire works? I can remove the wires in post so it does't matter if it shows on video. Will Photoshop be a good wire removel program?

ChibiVader · Post by **ChibiVader** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:33 am

you'll probably want to put them in a harness of some sort to distribute the force over their body. Otherwise getting a good yank would hurt like crazy. I'd also recommend having the cable go over a pulley with a 300-400 pound weight attached to the other end and a few people holding it up. They drop it and the guy will fly back distance the weight drops (with a little trig if there's an angle involved).

Also, I'd recommend braided steel wire. It's very strong and you shouldn't have any problems with it. The 3/16 inch should have a weight rating high enough to deal with that stress.

And Photoshop would definately be a good bet for wire removal. Remember to try to grab previous frames where the wire wasn't and use that to paste over the wire. If you can't do this, you'll have to paint it out by hand which doesn't always work well.

slimdog55 · Post by **slimdog55** » Tue May 04, 2004 12:52 pm

What do you mean, get prevous frames where the wire wasn't there? And paste over the wire? Do you mean like record a background plate, then composite it over the wire?

the_satanic_COokie · Post by **the_satanic_COokie** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:40 pm

how do you remove the wire in post?
This baffles me I really have no idea how it would be done...

pan-modo_pictures · Post by **pan-modo_pictures** » Tue May 04, 2004 3:31 pm

I had to mess around with removal yesterday, but it was a bit different. I did a claymation and I accidentaly got some fingers in the frame on a few shots. All my backgrounds were bluescreen luckily. So in premiere I got the selection I wanted,(where the fingers got in the way), exported as a filmstrip. In photoshop I opened the filmstrip file. Used the eyedropper to get the color blue I wanted, and painted over the fingers. Simple as that, but thats only for bluescreen. Even though the color didn't exactly match, it worked great and after you can't tell a finger was there.

I think what chibivader means by previous frames is finding out where the wire is in a frame that does not have the wire, using the lasso tool and making a selection and then copying it. Then pasting it in the frame with the wire in it and putting it in the exact place and then fixing it up a bit. I was wondering how they deleted wires, and I still am wondering.

Hey has anyone ever though about spray painting the wire blue, green, or whatever colour. It might be easier to hide in post. Ive never seen this before, but maybe some of you have tried it?

2nd_Recon · Post by **2nd_Recon** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:19 pm

Yea, I thought about doing that, theoretically, it would work fine, the only problem is that the bright green you painted the wire might show up as a dark, dull color, depending on what kind of lighting you use. This will probably work wonders as long as you keep the wire properly lit.

ChibiVader · Post by **ChibiVader** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:49 pm

slimdog55 wrote:What do you mean, get prevous frames where the wire wasn't there? And paste over the wire? Do you mean like record a background plate, then composite it over the wire?

Either. Or both. If you have the camera move at all, then a background plate is out of the question. If the camera is moving, it probably won't have moved much from the last frame and the part where the wire is (unless it's still in the same place on the shot) can be replaced with the empty space from previous frames.

And Pan-Modo: For your finger problem, why go through all the repainting work? If you were keying in AE, you could have just created a mask around the fingers (assuming they were at the edge of the shot) and not had to worry about keying that part of them.

Also, painting your wires blue wouldn't fix anything really. While you can then key them out fairly easy, you still need something to put in it's place so you're going to be doing essentially the same thing.

slimdog55 · Post by **slimdog55** » Tue May 04, 2004 11:06 pm

For what I'm doing, the camera doesn't move. Thats a +. I was thinking of getting a background plate, then record the scene. Camera doesn't move. Then in Photoshop, open the background plate, and the first frame of the scene, and just delete where the wire was, then move that frame to the background plate. And then the wire is gone. I think that would work.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Wed May 05, 2004 2:49 am

if you have after effects you can do the same exact thing, much quicker, use the same theory.
Make a mask around the wire...
Twirl down the mask options...
Click the Invert button, your wires should be black now
Add your background plate under your first layer
voila, your wires are removed

slimdog55 · Post by **slimdog55** » Wed May 05, 2004 3:38 am

I did a little test, trying to remove something, and it worked. I used the method in Photoshop. I opened the background plate frame, then opened one of the frames from the video and moved it to the background plate frame, and took the eraser tool and erased the wire. Voila, my wires are removed. I'll try the method in After effects one day.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Wed May 05, 2004 4:54 am

they work the same way, the only difference is that you dont have to do the after effects one frame by frame, you just keyframe the mask to move when the wire moves, let the program do the work

ChibiVader · Post by **ChibiVader** » Wed May 05, 2004 5:46 am

With AE, I'd put the plate layer on TOP and then have it be a regular animated mask.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Wed May 05, 2004 5:56 am

You need to just dive in and Try It Out! Stop trying to plan and plan and plan and Just Do It! Get Dirty! Spend some time instead of going over what you plan to do. DO IT! Learn by experience!

Also, some of you guys ask blatant questions that are easily found in the User Reference.

I'm done.

Truggy · Post by **Truggy** » Wed May 05, 2004 1:49 pm

Well hell if i knew that!...See heres the thing epsilon, i dont want to have a wire get caught around my windpipe and break it thus dyeing!...Ide like to learn from more experienced people like you all!...Asking= Safety...Not asking= :behead:

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Thu May 06, 2004 12:59 am

I was gerenally referring to your frequent discussion on wire removal. Which is truly an art perfected through experience!

DaveP · Post by **DaveP** » Fri May 07, 2004 3:22 pm

Hmm, for the wire idea, I need to have a rig made so a guy flies back after being punched. Now I know how to do this all, but heres one question:

how many people do U need (approx.) to make an average 15 year old be launched back about 3-4m

Truggy · Post by **Truggy** » Fri May 07, 2004 3:25 pm

probably 4 or 5 people? maybe not even that

ChibiVader · Post by **ChibiVader** » Sat May 08, 2004 2:27 am

read my above post about the counterweight. You'll need to lift them UP as well. Otherwise they drag and it becomes harder to pull and looks fake.

justsomeguy · Post by **justsomeguy** » Sun May 09, 2004 5:40 am

how many people do U need (approx.) to make an average 15 year old be launched back about 3-4m

zero people:
http://www.nccinema.ch/efx13.html

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Mon May 10, 2004 4:23 am

Why does that website continually appear!?

But that's only a couple feet back. DaveP is asking for around 13-14 feet! Few people can jump backwards that far!

DaveP · Post by **DaveP** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:23 pm

yeh, Im gonna have them fly back, and hit a wall and make it seem like they break the wall (cue the fan and dust effects)