Here's something ... Return of the Cloak (10Mb).
I'd be interested in what you think, good or bad ..
and in what I can do to make it better. (thus constructive criticism preferred).
Return of the Cloak
Moderator: Moderator Team
RE: Return of the Cloak
hmmm...didn't really have a story there. What was it meant to be? Looked like a bit of stuffing around on a friday night. I was looking forward to it...was a little let down there
RE: Return of the Cloak
well ... my apologies .. :)
but thanks for the comments !
This video is a bit targeted towards a certain audience, and there is more of a story for them ..
But I've been trying to go more mainstream and find ways to make the video also appeal to the general audiences.
The Darth Vader theme was not meant to be in the video at first, but I loved the comment made by the passerby (the first few seconds of the video), and it went from there.
Ok, here goes the story: that weird card structure in the video, where a part of the deck is balanced on the middle finger is regarded as one of the hardest card moves in the world. The only one who can do those exceptionally well is an underground master who never shows his face. At the end he's almost revealing who he is. (With a bit of symbolism perhaps).
Now, my turn .. what kind of thing were you expecting ? Do you mean like more character development and then interraction and some deeper story ?
On the other note. If I have a narrator who explains the above story, perhaps in a grave voice for effect, will this help ?
but thanks for the comments !
This video is a bit targeted towards a certain audience, and there is more of a story for them ..
But I've been trying to go more mainstream and find ways to make the video also appeal to the general audiences.
The Darth Vader theme was not meant to be in the video at first, but I loved the comment made by the passerby (the first few seconds of the video), and it went from there.
Ok, here goes the story: that weird card structure in the video, where a part of the deck is balanced on the middle finger is regarded as one of the hardest card moves in the world. The only one who can do those exceptionally well is an underground master who never shows his face. At the end he's almost revealing who he is. (With a bit of symbolism perhaps).
Now, my turn .. what kind of thing were you expecting ? Do you mean like more character development and then interraction and some deeper story ?
On the other note. If I have a narrator who explains the above story, perhaps in a grave voice for effect, will this help ?
Last edited by dennismv on Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RE: Return of the Cloak
Ok cool-very cool now you have recaptured my attention! Don't be sorry, it's just you didn't build that momentum in the video.
The first few mins are intriguing-then it just drags on. Is this serious? Is this a joke? If you want to add a funny edge, have a distorted face and voice explaining that he's the man behind the tricks and how he can only do it. If it's serious (and you want that raw edge) make it look as if you’re hiding the camera from him with the footage having jolts and shakes. Have there been local news articles written about this? You could glide them across the screen? You need to communicate to the viewer about this ‘rare feat’. I'm guessing you want a doco style piece.
If you do go in the direction of a doco then you need to undertake more research/work. Why not ‘try’ to follow this man and talk to him (This reminds me of ‘Looking for Bobby Fisher’). If you add the element of ‘maybe he’ll have a chat with us’ it gives the viewer something to look forward to. Build momentum towards the actual trick and let the viewer wait for it until your drawing to the end of your video. Have the intro-body and conclusion. I understood that it was something important as you showed it 563626 times! That was cool but, maybe when you finally (after building it throughout the piece)show the trick get the dude to do it in front of a white background so we can see it clearly then do your various camera angles etc
You said it’s for a certain audience. What audience is this? It must not include the general one because they don’t have a clue about the middle finger card trick. If this is for the magician’s society then great but, you know what they say: the broader the appeal, the better the success.
If you just want to show the trick and all over red rover then it should be a minute maybe two because I don’t think you need anymore. The doco would take up more time.
The first few mins are intriguing-then it just drags on. Is this serious? Is this a joke? If you want to add a funny edge, have a distorted face and voice explaining that he's the man behind the tricks and how he can only do it. If it's serious (and you want that raw edge) make it look as if you’re hiding the camera from him with the footage having jolts and shakes. Have there been local news articles written about this? You could glide them across the screen? You need to communicate to the viewer about this ‘rare feat’. I'm guessing you want a doco style piece.
If you do go in the direction of a doco then you need to undertake more research/work. Why not ‘try’ to follow this man and talk to him (This reminds me of ‘Looking for Bobby Fisher’). If you add the element of ‘maybe he’ll have a chat with us’ it gives the viewer something to look forward to. Build momentum towards the actual trick and let the viewer wait for it until your drawing to the end of your video. Have the intro-body and conclusion. I understood that it was something important as you showed it 563626 times! That was cool but, maybe when you finally (after building it throughout the piece)show the trick get the dude to do it in front of a white background so we can see it clearly then do your various camera angles etc
You said it’s for a certain audience. What audience is this? It must not include the general one because they don’t have a clue about the middle finger card trick. If this is for the magician’s society then great but, you know what they say: the broader the appeal, the better the success.
If you just want to show the trick and all over red rover then it should be a minute maybe two because I don’t think you need anymore. The doco would take up more time.
RE: Return of the Cloak
thank you !
Yes, the audience is magicians and those interested in displays of card manipulation.
I want to make sound serious, yet it doesn't have to be completely serious.
For example, I was thinking of having an announcer voice saying something like "... in our search, we found this great card manipulator here, on Lincoln road. However, he keeps being mistakened for someone else.." [cue in Darth Vader comment and music].
Doco style sounds interesting, yet I really don't want to make the video very long. My purpose was to get my point across and to decrease download times/video size. And to appeal to general audience if possible. 5 min tops, 4 or less preferred. Maybe I can condense doco style into this, maybe not. There are no news articles that I've seen, but I wonder if I can fake one.
About the build up.
Which part did you say was exceptionally slow ? Is it after the beginning but before the part where the trick is done 345283 times ?
My first thought was to just do a bunch of card moves before the actual trick, and that's what's in between.
My other thought was to add more music so that they spans the entire video and maybe make slower parts less boring.
I like the idea of trying to talk to the guy and maybe I can replace the slow part with that.
Actually, the figure is also acting like a living statue. i.e. you drop some money into their container/urn/vase, they spring to life, do something and then return to standing still. That's why the figure keeps standing still here and there. If this all makes more sense now, then maybe I didn't explain things within the video very well or something. But then I want to avoid talking when possible, and I don't know yet how to convey this without saying it. Maybe I can add a footage of other statues who look like real statues and maybe it will make more sense ... But then I don't want to take away attention from the main character, which is the cloak dude.
Are some things above worth a try ?
Yes, the audience is magicians and those interested in displays of card manipulation.
I want to make sound serious, yet it doesn't have to be completely serious.
For example, I was thinking of having an announcer voice saying something like "... in our search, we found this great card manipulator here, on Lincoln road. However, he keeps being mistakened for someone else.." [cue in Darth Vader comment and music].
Doco style sounds interesting, yet I really don't want to make the video very long. My purpose was to get my point across and to decrease download times/video size. And to appeal to general audience if possible. 5 min tops, 4 or less preferred. Maybe I can condense doco style into this, maybe not. There are no news articles that I've seen, but I wonder if I can fake one.
About the build up.
Which part did you say was exceptionally slow ? Is it after the beginning but before the part where the trick is done 345283 times ?
My first thought was to just do a bunch of card moves before the actual trick, and that's what's in between.
My other thought was to add more music so that they spans the entire video and maybe make slower parts less boring.
I like the idea of trying to talk to the guy and maybe I can replace the slow part with that.
Actually, the figure is also acting like a living statue. i.e. you drop some money into their container/urn/vase, they spring to life, do something and then return to standing still. That's why the figure keeps standing still here and there. If this all makes more sense now, then maybe I didn't explain things within the video very well or something. But then I want to avoid talking when possible, and I don't know yet how to convey this without saying it. Maybe I can add a footage of other statues who look like real statues and maybe it will make more sense ... But then I don't want to take away attention from the main character, which is the cloak dude.
Are some things above worth a try ?
Last edited by dennismv on Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RE: Return of the Cloak
All the things you said are worth trying! You're on to something now...I'm glad you didn't go into a huff about my comments as some do on here. I just want to help you mate.
Now, I too liked the 'Darf Vader' reference. Sounds like the direction you want to take this in is a cross between real life and spoof. ‘The Gods Must Be Crazy’ might be a start if you haven't seen it. That movie is a good example of what you want to do. Yeah, I saw that you did a whole bunch of card tricks in between then you did the main one. Just (for the general audience) make it clear about the importance of the main trick. You whispers to the camera while he performs it? He notices you and packs his stuff up-you follow with camera and he disappears. Label the first scene ‘Night 1’ and so on-progressing each night. Good point about not talking too much, you know the saying "Show it-Don't tell it but, don't direct it unless you have to!"
Yes, we all know that music sets the tone for the video. My girlfriend was watching it with me and said "It looks like he's shooting from a low level" I noticed that raw/grittiness and I think you should play that up-you know the kind of things they do when they chase shady car sales men. That could be the part where you try and find the guy behind the mask. Questions the audience asks and should have answered: Why the hell does he stay under a coat? How did he learn the trick? Why won’t he make it public? Talk to some 'sceptics' i.e.-another magician saying how there's no way its possible etc etc. Why does he settle for a few bucks when he could have stardom in Vegas? Play it up---if that’s where you want to take it. The trick at the end should hold it all together.
Yes I agree with your point that you don't want to take away from cloak man. That’s why the ogling=the people passing by, sceptic= another magician and cloak man chase would all compliment his character.
Over to you
Now, I too liked the 'Darf Vader' reference. Sounds like the direction you want to take this in is a cross between real life and spoof. ‘The Gods Must Be Crazy’ might be a start if you haven't seen it. That movie is a good example of what you want to do. Yeah, I saw that you did a whole bunch of card tricks in between then you did the main one. Just (for the general audience) make it clear about the importance of the main trick. You whispers to the camera while he performs it? He notices you and packs his stuff up-you follow with camera and he disappears. Label the first scene ‘Night 1’ and so on-progressing each night. Good point about not talking too much, you know the saying "Show it-Don't tell it but, don't direct it unless you have to!"
Yes, we all know that music sets the tone for the video. My girlfriend was watching it with me and said "It looks like he's shooting from a low level" I noticed that raw/grittiness and I think you should play that up-you know the kind of things they do when they chase shady car sales men. That could be the part where you try and find the guy behind the mask. Questions the audience asks and should have answered: Why the hell does he stay under a coat? How did he learn the trick? Why won’t he make it public? Talk to some 'sceptics' i.e.-another magician saying how there's no way its possible etc etc. Why does he settle for a few bucks when he could have stardom in Vegas? Play it up---if that’s where you want to take it. The trick at the end should hold it all together.
Yes I agree with your point that you don't want to take away from cloak man. That’s why the ogling=the people passing by, sceptic= another magician and cloak man chase would all compliment his character.
Over to you
RE: Return of the Cloak
wow some great ideas ! I love the one about talking to other magicians and especially sceptics, that's amazing !!
I have some other ideas that I'll try, i.e. I have some footage of living statues in many different places, and first I can set up a search for "the great master" and go through those statues, and keep not finding him. Then, finally find him. ... To think of it, it can become a big production on it's own, I have enough material to make a few series about this. The only question is if I want to make series or if I want to try fitting it all in one video. I seriously can almost make a feature length movie. Well, maybe not that, but something like a local news report that may run for over 10 minutes. I don't know if it'll be easy to pull of, but I see this project getting shape.
Thanks again for all the feedback and the comments that you've given.
I have some other ideas that I'll try, i.e. I have some footage of living statues in many different places, and first I can set up a search for "the great master" and go through those statues, and keep not finding him. Then, finally find him. ... To think of it, it can become a big production on it's own, I have enough material to make a few series about this. The only question is if I want to make series or if I want to try fitting it all in one video. I seriously can almost make a feature length movie. Well, maybe not that, but something like a local news report that may run for over 10 minutes. I don't know if it'll be easy to pull of, but I see this project getting shape.
Thanks again for all the feedback and the comments that you've given.
Last edited by dennismv on Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
RE: Return of the Cloak
More than happy to help. Keep posting as you progress
Best of luck
Best of luck