My new feature film - wanna help!?

[Lawriejaffa]

Alright, a while ago I conducted a film experiment, into what they call 'method filmmaking' or at least its what the guys who popularised its re-emergence (ie. directors of Blair Witch) like to call the subgenre of improvisational film.

I did one a while ago anyway, it was totally surreal and mostly non-sensical, and i did it with a number of actors, who could perform however they liked (so long they remained in character) and could for example use accents or not if they wanted too, while they were performing as Russian soldiers.

Now nothing about the film is particularly realistic, (i mean there are no dressed sets, people hold guns unrealistically, there are girls etc.) But thats not the point (in my experiment) but it WILL be the point in the film im doing based on the lessons i learned from this experiment!

So basically were performing as soldiers, in this kind of Cold War Experiment that goes wrong.

You can see the original version (which collects all the improvisational experiments and puts them into a kind of single film, here - )

http://www.newagefilm.co.uk/ROSTOVTHEMOVIE.wmv



Although these experiments dont constitute a 'film' (to some they do of course haha) they nonetheless have inspired me to do it 'again' but this time with the actual intention of making it into a movie that is accessible and entertaining. In that regard it would be completely different to the original tests of improv i did!



So here is my rough synopsis.


Set in the early 1950s, Soviet scientists utilise sound as a means of changing brain patterns, in order that test subjects can harness latent psychic abilities.

Of course the experiment goes hideously wrong. The film will be recorded by two characters (military photographers accompanying the soldiers who go to find out what went wrong with the experiment.)

They end up having to survive, while getting closer and closer to the truth of the matter. (i.e. the experiment and the dangers it has created.)

In this sense it will be an improvisational horror. However, this project will be very different to the film i link above, but i include it so that you can see some of the strengths and weakness of improvisation from actors (of varying skill levels!) - But bear in mind, my new film intends to be far far more accessible, with an all professional cast, dressed sets etc etc.

Anyway any suggestions or ideas welcome! (Comments are welcomed about the film Ive linked, but bear in mind its not a film that was made for audiences, but more so for us to examine our techniques of improv in film.

Incidentally some of you might ask why you would use improv (for the main narrative thrust) for a film, well I certainly do not for most films. But this project is an exception among some traditioanl scripted films i am currently producing. (Or hope too!) haha

[Lawriejaffa]

Okay still ranting on and on,

TECHNICAL////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The original film was done on (the one linked) a 1 chip Canon Optura! With mic on board it!!! (well its fairly obvious actually)

The new one, is being filmed on the HVX200, (tho it will be on SD cos of all the footage and the places we're going too make HD difficult) and a nice SE88 mic and pole.


The help im looking for is ideas, for the story, now true its improvised, but its mostly the actors 'reactions' to events that we bring about that are improvised. So if that makes sense, id love suggestions on that and others - please feel free

PRODUCTION///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have a 2 story building (large) that we are allowed to decorate and turn into a kind of research place (grim 50s one) - the building is to be demolished so we've got permission to 'customise it' - (its not derelict btw just getting ripped down for apartments)

As for costumes, well i got 10 ruskie soldier ones in the other day and a batch o lab coats, guns and other stuff necessary to recreate the era! (at least a bit of it anyway)

[Jperson]

Lawrie dude, you based in the US?

[Lawriejaffa]

Ah well im based in Fife in Scotland (travel to NYC and SanFrancisco a lot tho! if ur there!) Most of the help im asking for tho is a chance to let some guys participate on this board, on what will be a very unusual but rewarding film project (I hope!)

I intend to post more details very soon!

[Jperson]

Oh right, I'm based in London, but I was just wondering… All sounds cool, hope it goes well, but at the mo I don't think I can offer much help…

[Lawriejaffa]

Okay lads, heres a synopsis. Mind this is using a really weird narrative structure, and while it will use dressed sets and costumes etc (most) is to be improvised.
This is entirely intentional, as its blair witch like HOWEVER the character of the General will be scripted. So its a weird film right ? any comments on the rough synopsis !




ROSTOV PROJECT 2

Synopsis

An Army General sits solemnly in his office facing the camera.

He warns the audience that they are about to watch a classified film, explaining that the film will help resolve the mystery associated with the ‘Rostov disaster.’

We get a sense of importance and dread about this disaster, through the grimness of the General’s presentation.

The General explains that what is about to be seen, is allowed for those with Grade I security clearance. (the film has 5 grades, acting as chapters.)

Grade I

The General describes the following footage, as tapes recovered from the experiments of ‘Doctor X’, undertaken for the military in the areas of ‘sound and psychology’ at the ‘Rostov Research Clinic.’

What follows is a number of short clips (from 30secs to 2 min) of different patients undergoing barbaric tests, with many suffering pain and torture, with imagery reminiscent of the photographs recovered from Nazi wartime experimentation.

Back with the General, he explains that the discovery of these tapes led to the arrest of Doctor X, and the demolition of the research clinic.

Grade II (15)

We cut and return to the General in the office. While this follows from what we just watched, it very much is supposed to be a film (that would not be watched by the same audience as its predecessor)

The General tells us that Grade II security clearance is required to watch.

The General explains (to the contrary in the last film) that the tests were in fact authorised, and that many research programmes were progressing ahead of schedule thanks to the diligent work of the doctor.

However, they were informed, that the Doctor had authorised himself to perform experiments in an unapproved area of research, of psychic warfare.

When the Doctor was confronted with their discovery of his unauthorised research, he sent the tapes (you) are about to see.

We again see experiments, except this time they appear far more terrifying, brutal, and creepy than the ones before.
Many of the different patients who endure ‘psychic attack’ appear ‘ill’ and start performing recurring gestures (ritual like). One includes a crude portrait (crayon drawing) of their tormenter, the Doctor. But creepily all the portraits are the exact same.

We cut from the test subject footage, to an interview of the Doctor as he explains and justifies his experiments (to an audience he presumes to be his military employers.)

Back to the General, he explains that the interview footage had never been sent, and was found amongst the ruins of the clinic once it had been ‘demolished’ after the doctors arrest.

Grade III (25)

Cutting again, we sit with the General once more, this time citing the need for Grade III security clearance to watch.

Again contradicting what he just said, he tells us that the Doctor was not arrested but is still missing.

The General explains how when reports became sporadic with the clinic, that all contact was suddenly lost. Immediately a rescue team was despatched to presumably repair the lines of communication. However, the team was also charged with bringing the doctor back to high command to answer for his ‘eccentricities’.

The rescue team were also told to record everything they saw on their journey. The General tells us that what we are about to see, is parts of the tape, of the journey they made.

We follow a cast of characters, as they (in Blair Witch style) travel through a forest, to reach the Rostov Clinic. However, during their travels, they one by one succumb to destructive (and very scary) psychic phenomenon that turns them into bloodthirsty freaks.

A few survivors manage to get into the research clinic only to find a number of slack jawed survivors (nurses among them) lying crouched, drawing the doctors same crude portrait on the walls of the building. When confronted they turn in eerie unison. The tape cuts out.

The General tells us that the rescue team never returned that their footage was only recovered during the demolition of the clinic.

Grade IV (10)

Cutting back to the General, he tells us how in fact the Rostov clinic was not demolished but after subsequent rescue teams vanished, was instead ‘bombed’ from the air.

The destruction of the clinic did not stop the strange phenomenon that was occurring in that area, and was in fact spreading.
In superstitious tone, the General describes how this ‘madness’ had infect the very ground of the forest, and was spreading into nearby villages.

The General goes on (with accompanying footage including the portrait drawing/scratching) to describe the nature of this illness, that resulted in death.

Several villages succumbed to this virus of the mind, (again with accompanying footage.)

For the duration of a month since the destruction of the clinic, the ‘illness’ spread some 30 miles before suddenly stopping, for which there is no explanation.

The doctor remains at large, though it is suspected that he died during the initial bomb strike.

Grade V (20)

We cut and return to the General. Explaining that the footage that follows requires Grade V clearance, to be seen by the Chiefs of Staff etc etc only.

He explains the little doubt he has that the virus would have continued to spread had it not been for a military expedition mounted to inspect the damage done by the air-strike. What this team discovered… stopped the virus, though the reasons why are still a mystery.

There findings were also recorded on tape, but the results of their mission were so striking that they could never be shown to the public, for fear of the consequences and panic that would ensue. (build up the suspense)

We see a military expedition setting out, and as they get closer the craziest stuff yet happens. Ghosts seem to walk among them (that they are oblivious too) and all kinds of crazy stuff. They come across the doctor, who is oblivious to them, as they try to arrest him, he (catatonic looking) slowly fades away into nothingness.

Back to the General. Again, it is presumed, that the doctor died during the initial missile strike.

END

[DarkElastic]

That's a nice idea, and could be very scary! You need some good acting to pull it off though.

[Lawriejaffa]

Your damn right there, you see improvisation is (well good improv) is ultra demanding! Ich, well i will be videoing the auditions that are being held at a few colleges (and some open ones) I'll even post some tit bits of the auditions here on this thread too.

Its probably a bit arty and weird, but i want to get across the feeling that the audience is watching something from the cold war, 1950s, and something that is 'taboo' that there not supposed to see, but can do so now.

[Jperson]

That was stunning, from a writers point of view I thought that was a really good idea and would make a good book…I really liked it, I liked it as much as I like some films on here. Easily the best idea on here… Just and idea, the footage from the point of view of the rescue teams etc. should be made ot be look like it is a cam mounted on someone's head, and possibly, therofore, a bit shakyy, you may have other ideas though…

[Lawriejaffa]

Below is a basic telling (in a straight forward linear fashion) the story of the film. Note the film uses a weird structure to tell this story, but for simplicity i include this version so its clear! I hope you like it hehe



BASIC STORY

The Rostov Research Clinic is a private military psychiatric hospital, where experiments in both psychological warfare and sound are carried out on vulnerable patients.

The clinic is situated far from civilisation, the secrecy of its activities is maintained at the highest national level.

The military awaits eagerly the results of its funding in the belief that the Doctor will devise new and successful means of torture and interrogation, through use of psychology and sound.

After some time, the Doctor discovers that a combination of sound frequencies, personality displacement, drugs and misinformation are the most successful at extracting key ‘sections’ of information, in the fastest possible time.

The experiments result in many patients suffering physical injury and mental instability.

Eventually the doctor formulates the ‘5 step process’ to information retrieval.

It begins as such, the test subject is first,

1 Misinformed of there whereabouts, and the fate of those they care about.

2 They are forced to undergo ‘personality challenges’ that is issues that force them to confront and destroy moral boundaries and belief systems.

3 Drug serums that heighten bodily and particularly aural sensitivity are applied.

4 Sounds are played at increasing frequencies, until which point the patient experiences tremendous pain.

5 Patients are then interrogated, (while still under the effects of the drug serum.) Under considerable pain, and in mental duress, subjects have been found to share information that was otherwise impossible to attain.

Many test subjects perished in the pursuit of this ‘balanced’ system. During research, patients that were already willing to die, would commit suicide if the ‘personality’ challenges took away for example, their feelings of remorse, guilt or self preservation. Likewise different drug serums had effects that were in some cases unpredictable in their consequence, causing many deaths.

The so called ‘abuse’ perpetuated by the doctor (going beyond the realms of research) was the obsession derived from stage 4, the use of ‘sound’.

Most test subjects died during this phase, even after the level of sounds utilised was for the purpose of research already complete.

The doctor took a private desire, to continue this research in a direction out with the goal of aiding ‘interrogation’ techniques.

The Doctor came to believe, that by using drugs that increased aural awareness, and by listening to certain ‘patterns’ of sound frequencies (as determined by their results on test-subjects) that one could gain ‘new’ insights into oneself.

The nature of these insights appeared to be meditative, but it was also well known by intelligence, that the Doctor had an earnest belief in psychic phenomenon.

As the authorities became aware of these abuses, the Doctor was reprimanded while intelligence officers were employed to observe the clinics proceedings. It should be noted, that the Doctor was not replaced due to the meteoric like success of his prior research.

Several months past, and much to the frustration of High Command, the pace of research had all but stopped. Intelligence officers were recalled and interrogated themselves as to why research was slowing down.

They explained, that the Doctor had convinced them of the need for him to continue his research as he saw fit. The rebuke shocked Intelligence, and all the agents in question were immediately reposted.

Both High Command and Intelligence were unnerved by the limited contact the clinic now maintained. The Doctor was recalled to explain himself before a potential court martial. The patience of his employers had now run thin.

At that moment, an ill man claiming to be both a messenger and ‘patient’ of the Doctor, delivered several cans of film to Intelligence. The contents of the film was viewed by many high ranking officials.

The film showed a number of experiments which, if not staged were phenomenal in their potential consequences.
Subjects appeared to be taking their own life, and coming back to life, through other subjects (presumably trained) in the use of some form of psychic resurrecting phenomenon. In more shocking films, the direct opposite was also evident, where countless test subjects appeared to die horribly as a result of ‘psychic’ concentration. The results of these concentrations could be discerned in humming sounds, that almost replicated the sound boxes used in the interrogation experiments.

While the research appeared to represent a profound breakthrough not only in military research but even in human evolution, it represented nonetheless a serious threat to national security.
After-all what was to stop the Doctor from turning this new found power against anyone?

Analysts watching the tapes arose even greater concern for the High Command. It appeared that many of the guards had now joined in the experiments, representing a total collapse of command. Likewise to the end of the tape, it appeared that test subjects who had used this ‘psychic’ force had become insane. Almost all appeared either catatonic, or seemed to sketch (with a variety of instruments) what appeared to be a child like drawing of the Doctor’s face.

When the so called test subject who delivered the tape was interrogated, he informed intelligence that he was the camera man for these tests. More information could not be ascertained because the client ‘died’ from conditions very similar to the psychic attacks seen in the recordings.

Included also with the recordings, was what appeared to be a self-produced interview with the Doctor, with which he appeared to justify his research for the good of the country. Yet in a dilapidated state, the Doctor appeared to satisfy the belief of those who claimed he had gone completely mad.

There was great debate within the highest echelons of government, for what should be done next. Those who believed the research should be captured intact won their arguments, and soon enough a number of modest military expeditions were mounted to remake contact with the clinic.

The teams were each instructed to record their findings. It caused great consternation when all of the teams failed to return from their expeditions. Some days after contact was lost with them, another set of films (delivered anonymously) showed, albeit in bloodstained film canisters, the fates of one of these expeditions.

Watching both the horror and total loss of control that now reigned at the clinic, it was decided by High Command that the threat had to be eliminated.

Whilst they perused over what should be done however, a new danger crept upon them. Reports from distant villages near the clinic talked of panic and illness spreading through the countryside.

It was reported that some kind of ‘plague’ like that never seen, was causing people to become ‘statue like’ given to bouts of intense drawing, or scratching etc, of what appeared to be the same ‘face’ (as seen in research tapes.) This might not have caused such fear for the government, until contact with the villages, one by one was lost.

Had this psychic phenomenon evolved into some kind of plague? High Command responded first with a missile strike against the Clinic. Then the army moved in, evacuating other outlining areas, and discovering (and recording to the horror of the government) the fate of those affected. Hundreds were dead, while those that survived had turned into what could only be described as ‘monsters’, given to bouts of barbarism and violence, caused equally by mind and body.

They were killed in their dozens.

Some months passed, and it appeared that the plague was rescinding back to its original source. It was determined that the threat must have originated from the clinic, and that its destruction from the air had now rendered the so called ‘plague’ powerless.

At such point High Command sent a final military expedition to survey the ruins of the clinic and to record and collect what research remained.

This tape would cause a forever lasting effect on those who witness it. Expecting nothing to occur, the mission on the contrary appeared to discover, what may be evidence for the fabric like nature of the universe.
Whatever psychic phenomenon existed before, had now become more concentrated since the destruction of the clinic.

As the soldiers progress, they like the ones who ventured before them, faced illness, and madness upon their proximity to the clinic. However unlike the previous missions, they sometimes saw (and were sometimes oblivious) to beings, or ‘ghosts’ as some claim, who are watching and sometimes following them.

As the last few survivors reach the clinic, (now in ruins) they discover sitting in a state likened to the catatonic states seen before, is the Doctor.

They attempt to arrest him, but as they touch him, he slowly fades away into nothingness, (as do those ethereal figures around him.)

Those alive returned safely with the film. Since then the area no longer causes illness, and the abandoned villages nearby have been since reoccupied.

While these incidents all remain secret to the public, the government has speculated much on what occurred, and the meaning of the Doctors disappearance on the film.

The most popular view, is that the Doctor had, through research gained some form of consciousness within the psychic medium that allowed him to transcend the physical reality.

The Doctor is officially listed as missing.

[Lawriejaffa]

Okay i know its long, i don't expect everyone to read this, just a few hardcore interestees!

This next chunk of text, is the formula that i shall be using to film 'Grade I' of the film (as outlined in the synopsis post above) I think you may find this intersting however




Experiment I

Subjects are taken from the prisoner enclosure one by one, to stand before a panel consisting of the Doctor and several Intelligence officers.

Guards will be present to stop any of the subjects attempting to escape.

The subjects are asked 10 questions of variable intimacy.

1. What is your name, age, place of birth.
2. Describe your family and friends.
3. Who is your favourite and most disliked fellow ‘patient.’
4. When did you lose your virginity if you are a virgin?
5. Can you describe your first sexual experience.
6. Do you understand why you are here?
7. What is your greatest fear?
8. Do you wish to escape from here?
9. Are you guilty of any crimes?
10. Would you be willing to spy on fellow subjects.
11. Would you be willing to kill fellow subjects in exchange for privileges.

We would intercut parts of these answers with the other patients, taking approximately 4 minutes worth of time.




Experiment II

Subjects are placed in isolation. This allows for paranoia to develop between them, particularly the suspicious that some subjects may offer to act as murderers or spies.

Once again (same as before) subjects are brought before the panel. This time the subjects are fed misinformation. The nature of the misinformation is to make the subjects isolated, depressed and to increase mental instability as a stage towards creating a mind open to suggestion.

Misinformation will include.

1 False information relating to the arrest of family members and or deaths.
2 Informed of fictional betrayal by fellow subjects, for example, to tell subject a that subject b has been authorised to murder them.
3 Informed they have specific illnesses.
4 Informed that to save subjects they like, and or family members etc, that they must perform specific tasks.
5 That they are not the individuals they imagine themselves to be.
6 That they are not in Russia, or that the year is the same as they imagine.

Most of the misinformation will turn the subjects against one anther, but also will blur their perspective of the situation facing them. This is essential if they are to be manipulated.

The footage of these experiments will be cut to approximately 4 mins.


Experiment III

The most traumatic set of experiments are the so called ‘Personality’ Challenges. These experiments will take what has been learned of the subjects from experiment I and II, and use them to create ‘incidents’ of such trauma, that they cause long lasting mental trauma.

In these experiments the guards and other subjects who agreed (to conduct violence against their peers) will be utilised to traumatise other subjects.

For some subjects this will include;

1 The ‘deaths’ of supposedly arrested relatives.
2 Physical Torture
3 Sleep Deprivation
4 Rape & Sexual assault.
5 Forced to conduct acts against ones nature, for example murder.

The list is endless and will be largely determined by the answers provided by subjects in experiments I and II.

These scenes should last approximately 6mins.


Experiment IV

A number of as yet undetermined drugs will be tested on subjects. The aim is to find a drug that can take the patient into a state of catatonia, based on the successful application of mental instability from Experiment III.

It is hoped, that while in a state of catatonia that subjects will then be in a ready state for
Experiment V.

A psychiatrist will be consulted on what drugs may have been used for such purposes in the early 1950s.

Essentially however the drugs will consist of the following.

1 Hallucinogenic
2 Pain inducing (poisons for example)
3 Placebo
4 Heightened bodily and aural sensitivity

Several of these drugs, particularly those that are pain inducing may even cause death. All these results will be specially recorded.

Experiment V

The final experiment is based on redeveloping a sense of communication with the patient, now that trauma has placed them within a state of catatonia.

Through the use of sound instrumentation a number of beeping sounds are played. These sounds are played at frequencies that increase with every play. Eventually the sounds emit frequencies so high (and so loud) that they cause considerable physical pain to the subject.

Eventually, the subject learns that they can in fact control whether or not painful sounds are played, based on their cooperation with interrogators. Indeed subjects may not be able to speak to interrogators (mentally damaged though they are) but it is anticipated that signs can be read from them nonetheless.

To find the extreme limits of the sound – pain threshold, some subjects will have to be sacrificed.






Notes

In all, this will provide the footage for ‘Grade I’ of the film (apart from the General speaking which we anticipate will last for 3 minutes.)

There will be approximately 3 hours of footage recorded, which will be cut down to a mere (approximately) 12 minutes.

Naturally as one can determine, these scenes will include both graphic violence and nudity.

[GeokesPerson]

Looks brilliant sorry but i'm based in London too..

[Lawriejaffa]

Its okay you don't have to be physically there to help out Good ideas helps too! I'll be sharing the progress on this film as i go along and so it will be open for folks on the forum to comment on etc

[Jperson]

Is it gonna be in black and white? I really like the idea, very original, in a way, where did you come up with it? It';s such a good script you must do justice to it and not ruin it. You MUST make a good film out of that or you will be INSULTING the script!!!!!

I bet, no matter what this is going ot be brill…

Good luck.

[Lawriejaffa]

Okay, ive been doing my homework big time. This will be the 'experiment' in Rostov, the movie (that you will see the bootleg tapes of hehe.

I did some real research into this, and even enlisted the advice of a psychiatrist! So give me ur feedback is it convincing?





EXPERIMENT

A wide cross section of the populace is invited to participate in a variety of mental tests, from the variety of tests only those pertaining to ESP are relevant. Those subjects, who score a percentage of eighty percent or more in this field, are marked for possible test subjects.

Of those with the highest ESP scores, those from the most uneducated backgrounds and the most open to suggestion are selected to participate in the ‘experiment’.

These individuals are abducted by the security services and are to imprisoned at a secret research laboratory.


PHASE 1 ‘De-Patterning’

Subjects are treated to regular dosages of LSD, depressants and intermittently, ‘massive’ overdoses of electro shock treatment. An example would be for a subject to receive over a 5 week period, over 100 shocks.

The subject is considered ready for phase 2 when they have been successfully induced into an artificially conduced near vegetative state

PHASE 2 ‘Re-Patterning’

During this period, the subject may for several months remain comatose, (being awakened intermittently.) Regular doses of depressants are to be used to retain the subject’s comatose states, while LSD is to be applied during those rare days the subject is awake.

While the subject is comatose, an audio loop will play repeatedly for the entire duration of this phase, (which may last months.) The audio loop should contain messages pertinent to the ‘new personality’ that the subject is to adopt, thus allowing for effective indoctrination.

PHASE 3 ‘Recovery’

Eventually the subject will be allowed to wake and recover naturally from the effects of Phase 1 and 2. They will no longer be administered LSD, but will be given barbiturates, to help repress any memory of the experiment itself.

The subject when completely awake, should have adopted some traits of the ‘re-patterning’ process of phase 2, and have no tangible memories (if any) of their prior life prior to the experiment.


At this stage subjects will ready to undergo experiments designed to improve, control and direct their ESP potential.




PHASE 4

Subjects will be presented one by one with images of certain individuals. With each image, will play a distinct ‘sound’ frequency. This sound will later act as a trigger to remind the subject of the individual they were viewing.

Those individuals that the subjects are to like, will have sounds played that cause no pain, while those individuals that the subjects are to direct negative ESP towards, will have their images accompanied by a singular painful sound frequency.

In this way, painful sounds will act as triggers for the subjects to remember the image of the individual that accompanied it. This way the subjects minders, can repetitiously play the painful sound, so to direct the subjects pain, hatred etc towards the individual in the image.

With the absence of the subject’s ego, (as a result of phase 2) it is not imagined that subjects will blame the minders themselves for the pain they experience.

There is no way of anticipating the results of this portion of the experiment, but it is believed, that the ‘target’ individual, as they are bringing pain to the minds of the subjects, will have (without them knowing) attracted the deep antagonism of the subjects. As such the negative effect of the subject’s hatred, matched by their level of psychic energy, may cause a psychological and or physical deterioration in the target.

If the experiments prove effective, then the Intelligence service will have at its disposal, an invisible and invincible assassin.

It has to be noted, that the Phase 4 of this experiment will be subject to modification based on the successes and failures that arise from our attempts to harness ‘psychic phenomenon.’

[UFProductions]

I really like this idea, and out of curiousity, where are you located, I'm going to be in Scotland in a years time.

[Lawriejaffa]

Hi man thanx, and yep i live in Fife, Scotland, about 17 miles from Edinburgh in the town of Kirkcaldy! Where you headed

[UFProductions]

Everywhere! I'm going for about a month and a half, backpacking.

[Lawriejaffa]

Cool man well come pay us a visit while your up let me know when your journey starts and i can give you a tour of our setup here